SGI: Hardware

hamei wrote: Didn't mean to come off as quite so negative about the Fuel

Must be too much Highland Park on my side - but I seem to recall from various other threads that, depending on your mood, you were occasionally a bit more positive about the Fuel. Anyway, might be OT for the nonce, but, in your impeccable Far Eastern Wisdom, what would *you* think is the computer equivalent of what we call in German "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" [for the few non-German speakers on Nekochan, it's only "the sow, which lays eggs, provides you wool, and gives you milk" - i.e., gives you everything]

nekonoko wrote:

Oskar45 wrote: OK... as I already got a new mobo, I'll ask my local SGI support to take it back again and give me my old one

Heh, I wouldn't do that in your case as you're entitled [skip]So far my Fuel hasn't exhibited this problem (fingers crossed) ...

Well, I was only joking And long live your Fuel

Oskar45 wrote: ... what would *you* think is the computer equivalent of what we call in German "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" ...

An updated Octane would be tits. Tezro guts in an Octane package ? That would make a very nice desktop, imo.

I am sorry, but it is not a question of a buggy environmental monitor.
When my Fuel began flooding me with warning messages about the +5V line exceeding 5.5V, I checked the voltage with a precision voltmeter and found it was absolutely true.
The voltage kept increasing with time and now, after approx. 10 days, my Fuel no longer powers up: the +5V line exceeds 6V and the machine aborts the power-up and shuts down by itself.
In other words, the power supply is gone - and I *really* hope the voltage has not fried up any other part of the circuitry in the process.

Now, is there anyone knowing (a) how to repair it (this info is available for the PSU of the Indy...), or (b) where to get another?
The only supplier I know of asks 550 US$ from a new one - more than I paid for the whole thing.

By the way, I really love (loved?) my Fuel. Its build quality is not comparable to my Octane, but is anyway a good performer.

Thank you!

Obelix wrote: I am sorry, but it is not a question of a buggy environmental monitor.[...] By the way, I really love (loved?) my Fuel.

I believe you are right. Seems that the algorithm used for checking said voltage is faulty, giving occasionally wrong results...And, by all means, continue to love your Fuel - it's a GREAT box, even if a few others over here ridicule it when ever they can (well, I love mine nevertheless)

hamei wrote:

Oskar45 wrote: ... what would *you* think is the computer equivalent of what we call in German "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" ...

An updated Octane would be tit.

Precisely what updates have you in mind?

Obelix wrote: I am sorry, but it is not a question of a buggy environmental monitor.
When my Fuel began flooding me with warning messages about the +5V line exceeding 5.5V, I checked the voltage with a precision voltmeter and found it was absolutely true.

Looks as if your warnings were different from what the rest of us are/were getting. Pretty sure I was also getting the 1.5v up-and-down warnings that Oskar45 saw. Your power supply should be fairly simple to repair; it's just a typical peecee-type switching power supply. Per my other comments on the Fuel, one would expect a $550 power supply to last more than a few years. I don't think the Fuel is a bad computer - it's just way overpriced for the quality of the components.

Oskar45 wrote:

hamei wrote:

Oskar45 wrote: ... what would *you* think is the computer equivalent of what we call in German "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" ...

An updated Octane would be tits.

Precisely what updates have you in mind?

Faster memory system
faster disk system
1/4" more lateral room in the disk-drive area so that you could have a built-in DVD-ROM
support for IDE devices so that we don't have to beat our heads in to have a DVD burner
gigE built in

With the exception of the wider trays for a DVD-ROM they could have done all of it with a newer mainboard. Okay, not the IDE support, that'd have to go in a shoebox but otherwise SGI could have created a better Fuel than the Fuel by just offering a new mainboard and some red skins. Perhaps they didn't want to cannibalize Tezro sales but I doubt that would have been a problem. Perhaps it would not have been optimum but it would have resulted in a better computer, imo. Octanes are really nicely designed. The Fuel is ... uhhm, conventional. Dellishly conventional.

Obelix said

Now, is there anyone knowing (a) how to repair it (this info is available for the PSU of the Indy...), or (b) where to get another?
The only supplier I know of asks 550 US$ from a new one - more than I paid for the whole thing.

Aahh- the SMPSU. Very implementation specific, and a bit of a black art.
Are you familiar at all with the theory of operations? The site at http://www.smps.us/ has much semi-technical and technical stuff, the sci.electronics.repair faq is probably the best start, http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/smpsfaq.htm

Basic thing to keep in mind: on most cheap SMPSUs (the Fuel's is probably in this category, all PC supplies are), the voltage regulation reference is taken from one line and the other supplies are expected to track along with it, which they do mostly. Are the other lines also off on voltage? (often the 5v line is the reference). N.B. - DO NOT LEAVE IT PLUGGED INTO THE MAINBOARD FOR THIS TEST! it's already too high, you don't want to blow something. Jimmie the PSU on, usually there's a line that you short to ground to turn it on. Who knows? It might be a common ATX PSU- you could get a good one (e.g. Antec) and put it in. Make sure though, they aren't always the same.

SAQ wrote: It might be a common ATX PSU- you could get a good one (e.g. Antec) and put it in. Make sure though, they aren't always the same.

The newer 460W Fuel PSU is an EPS12V (24+8 pin for "high end" PCs) model from Fortron Source (Sparkle) - that one to be precise: http://www.home2000.net/client/fspgroup ... enumber=23

I see them listed starting at 85 EUR over here. Although i have no idea if they really use the stock model or even whether the pinout is the same..

I looked up the type of the older 430W one too back then but don't find my note right now..

schleusel wrote: ... from Fortron Source (Sparkle) ...

I think I'm going to puke

SAQ wrote: Basic thing to keep in mind: on most cheap SMPSUs (the Fuel's is probably in this category, all PC supplies are), the voltage regulation reference is taken from one line and the other supplies are expected to track along with it, which they do mostly. Are the other lines also off on voltage?

No, all warning messages always were about the +5V. Other voltages were within tolerances. Good point - maybe this can narrow the search...

hamei wrote:

schleusel wrote: ... from Fortron Source (Sparkle) ...

I think I'm going to puke

Actually I've used quite a few Sparkle (Fortron) PSU's here for PC kit, they're really pretty good quality for the price and seem to OEM a lot of the more 'popular' units. Once stripped an Antec PSU apart, lo, it was a Sparkle inside...

Dr. Dave wrote: Actually I've used quite a few Sparkle (Fortron) PSU's here for PC kit, they're really pretty good quality for the price ...

I made the mistake of going to their website. Fortron isTaiwanian. In Kunshan I live surounded by Taiwanians. They make me puke. I used to think that Milpitas was the armpit of the Universe ...

schleusel wrote: The newer 460W Fuel PSU is an EPS12V (24+8 pin for "high end" PCs) model from Fortron Source (Sparkle) - that one to be precise: http://www.home2000.net/client/fspgroup ... enumber=23 ... Although i have no idea if they really use the stock model or even whether the pinout is the same..

It isn't.
The Fuel uses standard ATX-EPS connectors, but with different color codes and a completely different pin-out.
Installing a non-SGI PSU looks like a disaster waiting to happen...

Not that big a problem if you are aware of it - Dell is also notorious for changing the PSU pinout (but they don't have reliably nice PSUs on all equipment). Sit down with a VOM and a dental pick, trace out the voltages on the SGI and then, using a ATX pinout (see http://www.hardwarebook.net ) pull apart the connector using the dental pick and reassemble. Done the rearrange a few times with various computer plugs.

Hamei sent me some pics of the Fuel motherboard, and it looks like environment monitoring is done with a couple of Dallas DS1780 chips which provide monitoring for 10 voltages per chip. I'd guess that the chip beside the L1 serial connector is likely related to PIMM voltages, and the one next to the power supply (right next to the "Timekeeper Snaphat" chip in the corner) monitors power supply voltages. Since the chips 'read' OK, one can assume that either the analog input to the chip on the offending line is bad (implying a chip problem), the voltage reference for the device is bad, or the origin for the derived voltage is bad.

Anyone know for certain if only the 1.5V line has the voltage problem?

Looks like replacement chips are available. If someone with a *new* motherboard can take a picture of the board around the DS1780 near the Timekeeper chip that would be useful.

Dr. Dave wrote: Since the chips 'read' OK, one can assume that either the analog input to the chip on the offending line is bad (implying a chip problem), the voltage reference for the device is bad, or the origin for the derived voltage is bad.

Did you ever consider the possibility that the chips themselves might indeed be ok but the checking /algorithm/ is faulty?

Oskar45 wrote:

Dr. Dave wrote: Since the chips 'read' OK, one can assume that either the analog input to the chip on the offending line is bad (implying a chip problem), the voltage reference for the device is bad, or the origin for the derived voltage is bad.

Did you ever consider the possibility that the chips themselves might indeed be ok but the checking /algorithm/ is faulty?

Shouldnt than sgi can fixed that with a firmware upgrade? According to the post sgi replaced the boards.

regards
Joerg

I have been reading this thread up to here with great concern, since all my full-equipped Indigo2 R10kq195MHz (Phobos G160, 1GB etc.) were recently replaced by R14k@600MHz Fuels...

About quality of PSUs: even the R10k "Impact" PSUs tended to fade (fail) some time (two of mine did).

There was a nice recipe for repair (replacement of dried-out capacitors in the PSU) later.

Make up some ATX PSU as a Fuel PSU replacement is not difficult? Good to know. Fingers crossed (mee, too) - here there´s no problem so far.

In case it is an issue of firmware on the mobo maybe SGI has fixed this already? You know, patches 5737 and 5404 AFAIK were about IP35 PROM - swmgr alerted for a PROM flash when istalling these on 6.5.22...

Ar am I heavily wrong here?

Walther