Nekonomicon - Soldering stations (pencil/hot air/both?)

SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5632 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 24, 2012, 9:24 a.m...

I'm looking at replacing my current soldering equipment, which was marginal to begin with and not very useful now (lead-free solder). I'm pretty sure I want temperature control.

I looked at stuff from Hakko, Metcal, Weller and Oki. Nice stuff, but I'm getting a little lost. I know I want a iron, and am considering the benefits of hot air. The problem is the ones that advertise both iron and air are two-irons-at-the-same-time and very expensive. What kind of units do people here use when they haven't been able to get their employer to pay for them? Are they two-at-a-time or plug in what you want and go?

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andyjpb
Who joined May 8, 2008, 7:43 a.m.
and authored 91 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 24, 2012, 12:47 p.m...

Hi,

SAQ wrote:

I'm looking at replacing my current soldering equipment, which was marginal to begin with and not very useful now (lead-free solder). I'm pretty sure I want temperature control.

I have one of these for a little light stuff at home:

http://uk.farnell.com/duratool/d00671/s ... dp/1498360

I use it mostly for my home made SMT boards and I occasionally fix the odd radio-mic for a musical theatre group.

For a cheapie it's amazingly good. I think I paid about £100 for mine (a few years ago now).
It's also possible to get it as a separate solder station and hot air station which were about £50 each. There's also a version with a desoldering gun instead of hot air, if that kind of thing floats your boat.

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00674/ ... dp/SD01386

The only slightly painful thing is that it's difficult to change soldering bits when they're hot but yous gets whats yous pays for and I think replacement irons are available separately so you could just get a couple of them: they have a more-easy-to-change connector where they plug into the base-station.

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00755/ ... dp/SD01388

It came with almost all the soldering bits, a separate iron-holder-with-sponge (so that you can put it somewhere convenient rather than with the base-station), euro and uk power leads and a good range of air nozzles. There are also other nozzles available at reasonable prices:

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/79-3903 ... 5-00001001

CPC seem to have it but it's a little more expensive now, but still on the Utlra Cheap end of things:

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00671/ ... dp/SD01383

It's well worth every penny!

They also have the stand-alone units:

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/zd-939a ... dp/SD01139

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00673/ ... dp/SD01385

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/ ... dp/SD01384

Regards,
@ndy

guardian452
Who joined Aug. 21, 2007, 9:12 p.m.
and authored 2602 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 24, 2012, 12:57 p.m...

My favourite iron is the weller wes51 iron with the teal transformer and temperature knob. In fact, I prefer it over the digital control. I've used them at several different jobs and at school and eventually bought my own.

As far as hot air, the only type I have extensive experience with is Oki. Works fine and well built, but the pump itself is rather noisy and rattly. I suppose make sure the handle feels good in the hand and it has the heat an power you require.

Lead free is not a big deal anymore. I've been using it for years and once you are used to it and your tool it is fine.

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SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5632 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 24, 2012, 1:11 p.m...

guardian452 wrote:

Lead free is not a big deal anymore. I've been using it for years and once you are used to it and your tool it is fine.

Not mine - it doesn't get hot enough to flow the solder on a joint of any size with the lead-free stuff.

Do the Wellers have feedback temperature control, or is it just a relative dial (hotter/cooler)?

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robespierre
Who joined Sept. 12, 2011, 1:28 p.m.
and authored 318 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 24, 2012, 4:34 p.m...

At least look at the Zephyrtronics stuff—they have pretty reasonable prices on accessories like flux dispensers. Their non-contact rework solution is almost ideal, with preheating from underneath and air pencil from above, and the board cradles are amazingly convenient.
I also have a Hakko 939ESD and while digital temperature control is convenient, it isn't really a big deal for hobbyist rework and assembly. The 936ESD's control is good enough, although its iron doesn't respond quite as quickly. I do appreciate the ability to control tip temperature for different solder types (there is more than just Sn63 and "lead-free"!) and use different settings for soldering and desoldering. The 936 is one of the most affordable all-duty products on the used market now, much more practical than Metcal I think (needs different tips for different temperatures and the tips are fairly costly).

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robespierre
Who joined Sept. 12, 2011, 1:28 p.m.
and authored 318 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 24, 2012, 4:36 p.m...

You may be able to find old products from Pace like the MBT series soldering/desoldering gun/hot air stations, very good I have heard, but parts and accessories are less commonly available.

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SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5632 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 25, 2012, 9:23 a.m...

robespierre wrote:

At least look at the Zephyrtronics stuff—they have pretty reasonable prices on accessories like flux dispensers. Their non-contact rework solution is almost ideal, with preheating from underneath and air pencil from above, and the board cradles are amazingly convenient.
I also have a Hakko 939ESD and while digital temperature control is convenient, it isn't really a big deal for hobbyist rework and assembly. The 936ESD's control is good enough, although its iron doesn't respond quite as quickly. I do appreciate the ability to control tip temperature for different solder types (there is more than just Sn63 and "lead-free"!) and use different settings for soldering and desoldering. The 936 is one of the most affordable all-duty products on the used market now, much more practical than Metcal I think (needs different tips for different temperatures and the tips are fairly costly).

I don't need the super fancy stuff, just want something that works. I have little experience with soldering stations, but don't want to buy something and then have it either break early or never work right.

Pretty sure I do want a feedback temp control, though, so I'm not making one of the $40 wonders with a Weller and a light dimmer.

Currently I'm seriously looking at the "build it yourself" hot air options - seems that that would be almost practical and not too clunky.

_________________
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

There are those who say I'm a bit of a curmudgeon. To them I reply: "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

:Indigo:

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robespierre
Who joined Sept. 12, 2011, 1:28 p.m.
and authored 318 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 25, 2012, 9:31 p.m...

A real Hakko 936 isn't much over $40. They sold millions of them because they always work. Temperature controlled soldering works in one of two ways: either the Metcal method that uses a magnetic material with a Curie point at the required tip temperature, fed by radio waves that are only absorbed if the tip cools below that temperature; or the method used by every other vendor, where the heater has an integrated thermocouple. The first has its advantages: heat recovery is almost instant, doesn't need calibrating, and there is no sensor or microcontroller to fail. The second is more practical because of the user's control over the temperature setting (although many stations have lockout keys/codes to prevent this being changed once it's set). But that flexibility comes with the need for more consumables (the heater/sensor elements) and a requirement to calibrate the sensor if absolute temperature accuracy is called for.

For CMOS devices you need to use a system that guarantees that there is no static charge on the tip by keeping it grounded, and shutting off if the ground has failed. Both cheap soldering guns/irons (that use 120V AC directly!) and ad-hoc air pencils built from same are not safe in that application.

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guardian452
Who joined Aug. 21, 2007, 9:12 p.m.
and authored 2602 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 26, 2012, 9:09 a.m...

The weller wes51 is controlled via thermostat and is quite accurate for maintaining temperature while powerful enough to deal with big power components (rectifiers, mosfets, transformers, etc). I dot know if it can be calibrated for absolute precision but for the price... you can also check it with an external thermometer. It's also well built. Esd safe is a must, IMO, even if you don't think you need it; but don't pay too much extra for it.

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SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5632 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 26, 2012, 10:17 a.m...

Looks like I'll look at either a Hakko (936 or 888 - looks like it's getting harder to find 936s complete [though plenty of Chinese knock-offs]) or Weller WES-51. Am I correct in reading that Hakko is still Japanese-made and Weller US?

_________________
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

There are those who say I'm a bit of a curmudgeon. To them I reply: "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

:Indigo:

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hamei
Who joined Feb. 24, 2004, 4:10 p.m.
and authored 8706 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 26, 2012, 5:48 p.m...

SAQ wrote:

Am I correct in reading that Hakko is still Japanese-made and Weller US?

I'd love to be wrong but fifty cents says both are made in China ...

robespierre
Who joined Sept. 12, 2011, 1:28 p.m.
and authored 318 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 27, 2012, 5:39 a.m...

The Hakko FX-888 you mentioned is made in Malaysia. My 939 was made in Japan.
The Weller WES(D)51 is made in Mexico.

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hamei
Who joined Feb. 24, 2004, 4:10 p.m.
and authored 8706 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 27, 2012, 6:26 a.m...

robespierre wrote:

The Hakko FX-888 you mentioned is made in Malaysia ... The Weller WES(D)51 is made in Mexico.

Does that count as half-wrong ?

guardian452
Who joined Aug. 21, 2007, 9:12 p.m.
and authored 2602 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 27, 2012, 6:39 a.m...

No, it counts as fully wrong :mrgreen:

I would say after some research hakko is the better iron, with better service* et al. but the wes51 works fine for me.

I wouldn't expect to hear anything from weller support, ever, as I bought mine secondhand from a dingy shop, and they tend to make things miserable even for their paying customers. OTOH:

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maxsleg
Who joined April 3, 2007, 10:56 p.m.
and authored 1465 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 28, 2012, 2:28 a.m...

I use Weller (both variable & TCP), very reliable - on 10/12 hours a day. Also have Ersa & Pace -also good. A Weller TCP Iron just goes on for years & years, parts are readily available, good range of bits that last a long time...

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hamei
Who joined Feb. 24, 2004, 4:10 p.m.
and authored 8193 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 28, 2012, 3:55 a.m...

guardian452 wrote:

No, it counts as fully wrong :mrgreen:

Q: How is a Foxconn factory in Suzhou different from a Foxconn factory in Kuala Lumpur ?

A: Ummm ..... let me see. Wait ! Wait ! I know the answer ! It's on the tip of my tongue ! Just give me five more minutes and I'll remember !

SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5538 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 28, 2012, 9:25 a.m...

hamei wrote:

guardian452 wrote:

No, it counts as fully wrong :mrgreen:

Q: How is a Foxconn factory in Suzhou different from a Foxconn factory in Kuala Lumpur ?

A: Ummm ..... let me see. Wait ! Wait ! I know the answer ! It's on the tip of my tongue ! Just give me five more minutes and I'll remember !

One country starts with "C", the other "M"? I don't think anyone went to either country (or Mexico for that matter) and said "I think I'm going to start a factory here because of the knowledge, ability, and dedication to excellence of the populace".

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PymbleSoftware
Who joined July 15, 2008, 4:48 p.m.
and authored 1823 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 28, 2012, 2:30 p.m...

SAQ wrote:

hamei wrote:

guardian452 wrote:

No, it counts as fully wrong :mrgreen:

Q: How is a Foxconn factory in Suzhou different from a Foxconn factory in Kuala Lumpur ?

A: Ummm ..... let me see. Wait ! Wait ! I know the answer ! It's on the tip of my tongue ! Just give me five more minutes and I'll remember !

One country starts with "C", the other "M"? I don't think anyone went to either country (or Mexico for that matter) and said "I think I'm going to start a factory here because of the knowledge, ability, and dedication to excellence of the populace".

I dunno, I've been to both and I know where I would build a factory.

R.

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japes
Who joined Nov. 8, 2007, 4:35 p.m.
and authored 606 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 28, 2012, 6:11 p.m...

I have an older Weller station (circa 2002), similar to a WES51, it has digital readout and a small iron and tip, I think it might only be 20watt. I enjoy using it very much.

I read a while back the Wellers with digital displays fail frequently, Weller has changed hands a few times and they might have suffered some quality control during those times, perhaps they're under control now. Regardless, the more displays/controls the more to break.

If I was starting over I would be temped to go with the Hakko FX-888 since everyone in the hobby space seems to be enamored by it. SparkFun and Adafruit are selling the FX-888 pretty steadily and seem to have lots of happy customers. I hear lots of folks talking about it being the only iron you'll ever need and at $100 it's hard to complain.

And if you find yourself wanting it RIGHT NOW, our Fry's has been stocking the FX-888 and might have one for you on the shelf (and their price was inline with the online shops I mentioned).

For hot air, I find I wish I had it about 2 seconds after I rip all the traces off a board trying to perform a little rework. I've tried using my Weller heatgun (I use for heatshrink) and I know I should get something. I had dreams of doing some more smt work and if that comes about I'm going to order the cheapo Sparkfun rework station. I noticed some made in China thing at Fry's, but I figure atleast the guys in Colorado get to make a buck and probably at least tried it out and think it should last for a day or five. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706

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SAQ
Who joined July 19, 2006, 7:37 a.m.
and authored 5538 notes

Wrote the following at Dec. 28, 2012, 7:01 p.m...

japes wrote:

I have an older Weller station (circa 2002), similar to a WES51, it has digital readout and a small iron and tip, I think it might only be 20watt. I enjoy using it very much.

I read a while back the Wellers with digital displays fail frequently, Weller has changed hands a few times and they might have suffered some quality control during those times, perhaps they're under control now. Regardless, the more displays/controls the more to break.

If I was starting over I would be temped to go with the Hakko FX-888 since everyone in the hobby space seems to be enamored by it. SparkFun and Adafruit are selling the FX-888 pretty steadily and seem to have lots of happy customers. I hear lots of folks talking about it being the only iron you'll ever need and at $100 it's hard to complain.

And if you find yourself wanting it RIGHT NOW, our Fry's has been stocking the FX-888 and might have one for you on the shelf (and their price was inline with the online shops I mentioned).

For hot air, I find I wish I had it about 2 seconds after I rip all the traces off a board trying to perform a little rework. I've tried using my Weller heatgun (I use for heatshrink) and I know I should get something. I had dreams of doing some more smt work and if that comes about I'm going to order the cheapo Sparkfun rework station. I noticed some made in China thing at Fry's, but I figure atleast the guys in Colorado get to make a buck and probably at least tried it out and think it should last for a day or five. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706

Yep, saw it at Fry's and it was within $20 of many online outfits.

I saw the SparkFun stuff, but didn't know anything about their products (quality and longevity). Guess I'll file it away for later.
The big thing for hot air is learning how to do the solder paste stuff.

_________________
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Soldering stations (pencil/hot air/both?) - Page 1